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J2EE vs .NET (2)

摘要: J2EE vs .NET Posted By: Roger Borg on June 15, 2001 in response to this message. >Here's ano...
J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: Roger Borg on June 15, 2001 in response to this message.
>Here's another comparison (DotNet Vs J2EE) from the DotNet Side !!

Why can't the 'Scalability' section of this document, also include the other possible 'real world' hardware/software selections when considering J2EE?


I would consider this section of the document incomplete for the purposes of serious comparison.

If there are glaring performance/scalability issues with J2EE on either of these platforms, Roger Sessions could have played that to the hilt...

Are there any benchmarks or 'educated' guessworks comparing J2EE and MS/.NET that use the same hardware (and maybe even using NT/2000)?

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J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: m m on June 15, 2001 in response to this message.
.Net applications exist actually (june 2001) , yes there are still in beta version but they exit.
You will see on September the power of .Net and the java killer : C#

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J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: K George on June 16, 2001 in response to this message.
I don't agree that the M$ and $UN are equal evils at least from a developers perspective.To me key issue is that in the final analysis MS makes its $ from software Sun makes it moolah from hardware. Eventually when you apply Darwinian logic to it MS can only grow(when you consider its market cap) by taking marketshare from other people in the software market place by pushing as many commoditized solutions into the market(including niche but highly profitable markets like telecoms, embedded systems, games etc). As long as they own the platform there is nothing people can do about it. I think every one on this forum knows the history(and the bodies :-)). The ISVs already know and understand this(I work for one), hence their enthusiasm for J2EE. Personally speaking as a individual developer I know I'm at the bottom of the food chain but eventually MS is going come for me and charge me gatekeeper fees. I know this is paranoid but I'm great fan of Andy Grove's dictum that "Only the paranoid survive." So I'd rather play with my enemy's enemy right now.

Other than that I agree with most of the forum that J2EE is really great architecure with poor GUI development(esp. integration) tools.

MS really kicks ass when it comes to providing an out of the box integrated development environment.

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J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: Claude Bernard Diesse on June 21, 2001 in response to this message.
I am very surprised to see that so skilled guys as you continue to confuse about who is who in this computer and IT business. Is M$ more evil than $un or Oracle$ or Ibm$ ? That is a lost-time debate... But I want to share my today conviction:
1- All are Devils until they realize you have understood their real intend !!! (to sell shit at the highest price). And non one is better in that game.
2- M$ have been ejected from the JAVA wagon by Sun/IBM/Oracle gang using the doubtful strategy, and the fact that M$ was at that time looked as an Evil for many middleware developers. But If you today developers are honest, you will agree that the Java solution, which started War against M$, is no more than a COM+ solution with a better packaging and a OO adapted langage for integration and worked to resolve the weakness of VB/C++ link to COM+. M$ tried to introduce some rules in java, to take his Windows/COM/MTS investment into account, but the java gang refused pushing him into licence violation and creating all necessary lawsuit. They won to put him out but they also won another real concurrent platform .NET as microsoft intend to reply by the same way.

3- I have not already look at the .NET solution, because of lake of time, but I am barely sure the M$ approach will be to do the same thing the java gang have done in the past: Look at the weakness of the J2EE solution and trying to leverage his current investment in COM+/MTS.

4- Some one ask why M$ don't simply licence $un Java ? He have to remember that the goal is to reuse his past investment(COM+/MTS/DNA) ... And those who want to believe that M$ is creating a new product have to quit right now. The new challenge is how to package the same old stuff in a new shining manner. I know they use developers to advocate that their solutions are new.

5- Java by itsel is not technically new ... But the rules, policies and environment are newly specified to give a more open shared opportunities and solutions. With C#, Microsoft will try to copy all good stuff of Java and give the opportunity to his loyal developers to not regret Java environment... And I will not be surprise that the 2 languages will share the same concepts each copying the best of the other.

6- For my conclusion, I think the issue is held by the developers ... If Java Developers continue to be more vigilant as in the past, the J2EE platform will enhance and acquire more tools and be more easy to use. J2EE will continue to keep the distance as long as developers continue to share knowledge and there are more shareware source for java solutions. In the J2EE environement, it is difficult to cheat ... You can look at the change of course at Oracle: They have losted tme trying to sell anything but Application Server solution in Java environment. Today the have to admit they were wrong trying to call a cat a dog. They have good tools, but they too want to sell old investment products. IBM too is not so famous and they are not realy J2EE compliant ... By doing so, they give opportunity to Bea to take the lead. You can realize tha also Sun have some difficulties to be the leader in the aera. I think they also have internal fight with those who want to sell old stuffs.

7- M$ can win if they continue to pretend in that sense. Developers in M$ area are somewhat confused by what is really going on, and they usually compete with M$ as main developer. Dear Developers, do'nt worry with M$ .NET solution, because it will be a one supplier solution, for lowest integrator. I think Java gang will not give him the chance to come back and your J2EE succefull solutions are the only way to measure that come back.


The only issue for .NET solution is

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J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: Alex B on June 26, 2001 in response to this message.
The problem with IDEs is that those tools cater to the non-technical developers. I view them as crutches/training wheels. If you don't know how to ride a bike, training wheels come in very handy. They prevent you from falling down. But, if you already know how to ride, they are a hindrance.

Same is with those VB-like IDEs -- if you know how to design your classes properly, the IDE will just be in your way (as it doesn't really support proper design practices). But if you don't know much about the OO design, the IDE may help by assuring some crude level of coherence in your code.

The fact remains that about 70% of the software development effort goes into thinking. The remaining 30% is spent on implementing/deploying. IDEs cannot help you think better. They may assist you in some areas of implementation/deployment, but if you really know what you're doing, an IDE is simply an annoyance. There are many people, however, who are choosing to switch from being office workers (i.e. sales reps, accounting staff, etc.) to building software. They lack proper formal training in software development, but some vendors give them the encouragement by offering them an IDE. VB championed that, and millions were convinced that they could easily switch to developing apps. Unfortunately, people who really know how to build apps are often called in to clean up the mess after these guys have had their go with IDEs.

In the long run, I don't think it's worth the trouble.

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J2EE vs .NET
Posted By: Bernhard Messerer on June 27, 2001 in response to this message.
This may be true to a certain degree, however... I think I _can_ design properly, and I can work with and editor and the JDK. I also agree with the useless VB like IDEs.
I however, disagree completely that IDEs just hinder you. I'm sorry, but I like the syntax highlighting, I like a project structure pane, i like to see the structure of my classes, I don't want to edit DDs by hand, and neither do I want to code remote interfaces by hand. I enjoy UML diagrams, I like the graphical debugger, I like building UIs with some mouseclicks and so on.
So I think if you would take the time, and get used to the IDE it can save you a lot of time and will not be in your way. It will help you a lot.

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Posted By: Girish Eashwar on June 29, 2001 in response to this message.

I would like to highlight a few issues regarding IDE's. there is no doubt that devlopment is about thinking. An IDE job is however to free time resources for the developer to concentrate more on development logic, than using them to worry about Standards compliance and other such issues. An IDE helps the developer by generating infrastructure code, implementation code and allowing h
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